Inspiring Positive Change and Growth in Your Community, with Deke Copenhaver

Jackie - 00:00:10:

You're listening to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, certified diversity executive writer, human rights advocate, and co-founder of the Diversity Movement. On this podcast, I'm talking to trailblazers, game changers and glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring stories, lessons learned, and insights on business, inclusion, and personal development. Welcome to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox podcast. Deke Copenhaver is my guest today. Deke was the mayor of Augusta from 2005 to 2014. Now serving as the principal of Copenhaver Consulting, Deke remains committed to positive change and growth while helping others realize their potential to impact their communities for the better. He has been recognized multiple times by Georgia Trend Magazine as one of the 100 most influential Georgians. Deke is the author of The Changemaker: The Art Of Building Better Leaders and host of The Changemaker Podcast. Deke, thank you so much for being here.

Deke - 00:01:21:

Jackie, thank you so much for having me.

Jackie - 00:01:26:

I've been really looking forward to this conversation with you. Deke, will you tell us a little bit about yourself? Your background, your family, your identity, whatever you'd like to share.

Deke - 00:01:36:

Yeah, it's a very interesting story. So I was born in Montreal, Canada. Moved to Augusta, Georgia, when I was four years old as a painfully shy kid with a thick Canadian accent, and you talk about feeling like a fish out of water. Grew up wanting to become a writer and ended up going to the University of Georgia. Wanted to major in journalism. Dad wanted me to major in business. So what do you do? You major in what your dad wants you to.

Jackie - 00:02:03:

Right.

Deke - 00:02:03:

But ended up getting my degree from Augusta College in Political Science. Never thought I'd use my political science degree. Went to work in banking, then got into real estate and development. Came back to Augusta, saw that there was a need for new leadership in the city. 37 years old, I ran for mayor, was elected, served nine years. Used my political science degree. Yeah, to a large degree. But then got into consulting, keynote speaking, podcasting, writing. I tell people I'm still trying to just figure out what I want to do when I grow up.

Jackie - 00:02:40:

Deke. I love that. One of the things that I love to talk about on this show, young people feel like they have to have it figured out and know exactly what the path is. And I love hearing stories like that, where there's so many parts to it. Right. There are so many things that you're into and interested in and ways to contribute to your personal happiness and to success and to our community. So I love that.

Deke - 00:03:08:

Well, it's funny. So, as I say, I grew up wanting to be a writer. Well, I didn't publish my first book until I was after 50, but I still got to live that dream. But I tell kids, and this is a quote from, they quote it from Sir Thomas Dewar from Dewar's Scotch, which happens to be my favorite Scotch. But a mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open. And the more as we grow and the older we get, we still all need to keep open minds, because the possibilities of what we can do in our lives are limitless as long as we don't limit ourselves and close our minds.

Jackie - 00:03:47:

Absolutely. Deke, that's such good advice. Deke, let's talk about you being the mayor of Augusta. What inspired you to run for that office, and then will you share some of the challenges of serving in that position, especially in your first term?

Deke - 00:04:05:

It's a good story. So I went through a program in 2004 called Leadership Georgia, which is the oldest statewide leadership program in the nation. So you travel around the state, you go to communities, listening to what some of their successes and their challenges are, and try to take those back and impact your own community. But Augusta had a terrible reputation for our politics. So the week that I graduated, we had our third current or former elected official Go under indictment. Local elected officials, black, white, male, female, Republican and Democrat covered it all. And so I thought, this is just not good at the state level. How are they looking at us? And I'm very competitive. And our then governor, governor Sonny Perdue's chief of staff, was on the board with Leadership Georgia and was a friend of mine. And he looked at me and he said, we live on the Savannah River. He said, what are you guys putting in the water up there? And I was like, man, that said, that's the straw that broke the camel's back. If a position comes available, I'm going to run for it. So our former mayor left to go become Southeast Regional director for HUD, so I didn't know I was supposed to ask anybody. So I just said, I'm going to run. Literally got called into a back room by local business leaders that I knew and told that I would be the best mayor, but that I hadn't paid my dues and that I needed to wait my turn. And I'm like, you're telling me that I would be the best mayor out of all the candidates, but I shouldn't do this because I haven't paid my dues. And I said, Look, I'm going to run and I'm going to win whether you're guys in the race or not. So subsequently I did and was elected for two more terms after that. But it was challenging, I will tell you. Jackie, in retrospect, being young and naive was a huge plus because I really didn't know what I was getting into. And had I known, I might have thought twice about it. But one of the challenges was for me, and this goes into diversity and inclusion. So I wondered why, when I took office, there were people that hated me who had never met me. But what I came to realize in a city of 200,000 people, because I ran for office and became an elected official, a lot of people just assumed I was your typical politician. So by the end of my turn I mean by the end of my time in office, that had changed. When people had gotten to know me and they knew that I was really in it for the right reasons. But just facing that where people label you a certain way when they've never met you, which we know that happens a lot in society, that dealing with that was difficult. Dealing with having no privacy whatsoever was difficult. I mean, I made it a point to not put myself in a silo or just to not isolate myself. So I'd go to the grocery store. I'd go to the Y daily. I'd go to Lowe's. But you always had to figure in extra time to go anyplace, because wherever you went, you couldn't stop being the mayor, so you had to take time out to answer people's questions, to engage with them. So those are some of the things, but there were way more blessings that came from it than difficulties.

Jackie - 00:07:47:

That's amazing and so inspiring. So many of us want to do what we feel we're called to do, but are afraid to make that leap. Can you tell me what gives you that courage to step out and do new things and embrace new things with the vigor that you do?

Deke - 00:08:07:

It's interesting. Jackie? I tell people it's like, I love to snow ski, but I'm not the guy that gets to the top of the mountain that wants to look out on everything. I want to go straight down and get to the bottom. So I've spent my life just basically it's been a circuitous life, but I've gone where I've seen the greatest need. And so deciding to run for mayor. I like to study city demographics, and at that point in time, we were losing population and our tax base was shrinking. But I thought, okay, I know what those trends extrapolated over time. What happens there? American city. The best example is Detroit. If your local economy shrinks, you lose population. It becomes a very difficult situation. So I thought, if I know this and I don't try to do anything about it, I've got culpability, so I have a responsibility to try to do something about it. So effectively, I kind of staged an intervention, and it worked. But that's in my life. I know if I have the ability to make a difference, but I don't take the opportunity to do that. I just don't feel good about myself.

Jackie - 00:09:32:

Wow, that's amazing. And so inspiring for us to think about pushing ourselves forward and doing that scary thing. I think that's amazing. Today's politics creates such polarization between people, and it's less about picking and choosing what you believe and support and the policies and the candidates specifically and more about a wholesale choice of one party or the other. How do we begin to move away from that and begin to bridge that political divide? Voting on the issues, voting for the candidates that you believe in and not us against them. Right.

Deke - 00:10:17:

Jackie, I will tell you, I've thought a lot about this because I'm happily independent. All local races in Georgia are independent, which I think is great, but the two parties effectively have a monopoly. And when you think about how I think the majority of voters now in the United States identify as a pendant, as independent that's right. But they can't vote in the primaries. You have to say you're a Democrat or Republican. So people talk about voter suppression. I think both parties are suppressing the votes of independence. I honestly do, I've been having talks with the leadership of the Forward Party recently, which I think a viable third party would be a very good thing. But you see, with the Forward Party trying to get on ballots in all 50 states, both of the established political parties are fighting that. And so it's kind of they know they control the market share, and anything that challenges the status quo can take away from the market share. And I tell people my opinion. Politics is not about black and white, Democrat and Republican, male and female. It's about power and control. And once you give somebody a little bit of it, good luck taking it away from them. I mean, I think the majority of Americans would like to see things like ranked choice voting, which they've adopted in several states. I think that really levels the playing field a little bit more. But it's just it's very difficult for people to give up power that they have. And I think that'll change over time, because next year, Millennials and Gen Z will comprise 45% of the American electorate. They are not married to either party. During the midterms, they went with the Democrats based on social issues. But I think it's great that they're independent minded and not married to either of the two parties. But I tell my friends in that generation, I'm like, man, you have got with 45% of the electorate, you have got real power. If you want to change things, you can change it.

Jackie - 00:12:51:

Absolutely. One of the things, it's the beginning of June, right? The beginning of Pride Month. It's the first as we're recording this, and I want to talk about the Pride Parade in Augusta and how you were in office when that came to your desk. Right. Tell us about navigating, that situation and how you were getting input right. And backlash from one side and the other. Tell us how you navigated that.

Deke - 00:13:30:

Well, so naturally, 2010, when we had our first Pride Parade was my final election year. So, like, okay, well, to bring in your first Pride Parade can cause a little controversy. It got out into I don't know, somebody leaked out of the local government that the Parade application was sitting on my desk and that I was the only thing standing between Augustine, Sodom and Gomorrah. So I'm a Christian and very strong in my belief system but I got letters from churches saying if you allow this to happen, you're never welcome in our church again. But realistically that was not the case. The application was in process but had not come to my desk yet. So I asked the city attorney for a legal opinion with the purpose of showing whoever wanted to know look, this organization has every right to have their festival and their parade. And so then went the application hit my desk, I signed it and did anything else about it. But the local paper said that I was thin skinned, that I hid behind a legal opinion, that I wouldn't stand up and fight against this. But it was so funny. A great friend of mine who was the commanding general of our local Navit army base said generals don't do anything without a legal opinion. And so I met with the organizers that year. So I'm just catching all sorts of heat. I said, Look, I'll take the heat this year, next year everything will be fine. This year will go off without a hitch. So if we're fine that year, this will be golly, this will be our 13th annual. It has grown to be an event that the community welcomes and embraces. I think the average annual economic impact is $4 million a year and some of our major corporate citizens are some of the biggest supporters. But this gets into diversity and inclusion. Got to make this part of the story. My first year in office in 2006, we recruited ADP, Automatic Data Processing, Fortune 300 company. First meeting they told me about their commitment to diversity. So because Augusta had a diverse labor force, which you and I know so many think people think diversity and they think black and white so much more than that.

Jackie - 00:16:27:

That's right.

Deke - 00:16:27:

But having a diverse labor force helped bring a Fortune 300 company to Augusta, creating thousands thousand jobs. They've since doubled their footprint and doubled their employment and oh by the way, they're one of the biggest sponsors of our pride parade.

Jackie - 00:16:46:

Wow.

Deke - 00:16:47:

So what is not to like about that? So a story that was controversial at the beginning but if I had let the vocal minority bully me into doing something that I knew would have had no impact legally just to fight to look like a politician, typical politician, I fought against that which would have done no good and we're a welcoming community. As I say, our community has embraced it. How would that have made our community as a whole look, it wouldn't have really been a good reflection on us but so often in politics it's the squeaky wheel gets the grease and politicians let their decisions be driven by the vocal minority, which to me that's not leadership, that's cowardice.

Jackie - 00:17:38:

Well said, Deke. I totally agree. And as leaders, sometimes we have to be willing to fight the fight right to get the right thing done. And it can be scary and it can be frustrating and it can be a lot of different things, a lot of different emotions. But we have to stand up and do what we think is right. In that case, for you, Deke, the impact to the community from an economic standpoint, the impact to the community from a belonging standpoint has been significant. And I think that's amazing.

Deke - 00:18:18:

Jackie and we've discussed this. I'll go into my faith on this. I mean, I'm happy to talk about my faith. I'm a christian. I don't begrudge anybody their faith, tradition or lack thereof. But I will say in the bible, God commands us as Christians to love our neighbors ourselves. There is no limit put on that. That does not say black neighbor, white neighbor, rich neighbor, poor neighbor, gay neighbor, straight neighbor. That says your neighbor. And to me that's an absolute. And we are all neighbors. I wish everybody could see it that way. That's the way that I see it. I mean, that doesn't even say you're a christian neighbor. I can love my muslim friends. I can love my jewish friends. It doesn't stop me from loving somebody just based on their religion, their sexual preference. That's the healing factor for everything. It's got to be out of love, I think.

Jackie - 00:19:25:

Absolutely. I totally agree with that. If we led as communities, as a nation, as a world right, with love and compassion for one another, it would be a better place.

Deke - 00:19:40:

Absolutely it would. And Jackie, we talked before coming on air. I want to tell you a great story, though.

Jackie - 00:19:47:

Yes, please.

Deke - 00:19:48:

So I shared with you right before coming on air last month, I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. So I'm young, healthy. You don't expect that necessarily. So the first thought that you have when somebody tells you you might have cancer, am I going to die? First thought, I bet probably 99% of the people that find out they may have it had that thought. But when I got the diagnosis, my prognosis was good. So then it flipped to what can I do with this this opportunity? So my former executive assistant is now the chief of staff at the Georgia Cancer Center. He said we've got the Unite in the Fight Walk Against Cancer coming up in three weeks to benefit the cancer center, love for you to form a team. So we formed a team. So we set as a fundraising goal, $10,000. Our team in three weeks raised $53,000.

Jackie - 00:20:52:

Wow.

Deke - 00:20:52:

The overall goal was $75,000. It's at $116,000 in counting. What I came to realize is that leading through love for nine years and through building bridges, bringing people together on common ground and focusing just purposely building a sea of goodwill more than eight years out of office, leading through love. Those bridges and that sea of goodwill are still there. And that created a situation where the community could rally around me and the campaign. Think of what those funds because a lot of what the cancer center does is take care of people that don't have access to the best cancer care, which I do. So what that's doing to impact people that might not have access to that care in our community and throughout the state of Georgia, but that's the benefit of leading through love over time. I mean, here again, if I'd have been your typical politician and led through fear and intimidation, dividing people to serve myself on whatever issue it was and not to serve the community as a whole, I would subject to you. That never would have been possible.

Jackie - 00:22:17:

Absolutely. And listening very closely through the things that you just said, bridges, common ground, goodwill, community, if we all think about that first and the ripple effects that can have in a positive way in our families, in our workplace, in our communities, what a difference we could make just as individual people.

Deke - 00:22:42:

Well, it's so cool though, Jackie, because people would say being mayor has got to be the most thankless job. It really wasn't because I was out there intersecting with the people I served on a daily basis. Not a week went by that people didn't thank me for what I was doing because they knew I was real. They knew I was not above them. I was on the same level with them that's happened for eight years out of office. So I felt like that sea of goodwill still existed. But at the cancer walk, it manifested itself. So I could physically see that. And that's a powerful thing to know that that is still there. Leading through love is sustainable. Even when you leave that leadership position, it still maintains that form of that sea of goodwill. But to have that manifested for me, that contributed greatly to my own healing process.

Jackie - 00:23:44:

Absolutely. Well, again, I think that's so important to share, for us to understand, for us to embrace in how we live our own lives and speed of recovery. To you, Deke, and your continued health journey there.

Deke - 00:23:59:

Well, I appreciate it, Jackie. I'll tell you. So 18th radiation treatment today. Have my fifth and final chemo next week. I have had no side effects. I go to the gym every day. No weight loss, no hair loss, sleeping well, eating well. But for your because people say, how do you keep such a positive attitude? I can't guarantee those results for everybody. That is just God. And I'm blessed. But in anything we face in the battles with people that are dead against diversity, inclusion initiatives, keep a positive attitude. My doctor told me yesterday, people who go through treatment, the ones who have a positive attitude, hands down, do the best. And so all of these things, you've got to be willing to fight, but you don't have to fight mean or dirty. You can keep it to the high ground, and you can still win and be successful.

Jackie - 00:25:04:

Absolutely. Such good advice. Deke. Let's talk about Copenhaver Consulting. What is your mission and how do you help your clients?

Deke - 00:25:16:

It grew out of when I was in office, I was sort of the point person for businesses who helped put deals together from an economic development standpoint. When I left office, I just didn't see that existing within the government. So that was sort of to really help businesses interface with the local government. It grew out of that, and it really morphed into helping businesses grow. I really want to work with businesses that have mutually aligned sensibilities. For myself, I help businesses focus on building good cultures, because I think now, given what we're seeing in the world, the great resignation, if you're not an employer of choice, which means being to me, an employer that embraces diversity and inclusion, I mean, a business that people want to come to work, then you're losing. If you're not an employer that understands that you need a younger labor force and that you need to be attractive to millennials and Gen Z, you're going to lose. If you're a government that can't bring those people in to employ them, over time, you're going to lose political parties the same way. So it's kind of morphed into helping businesses and individuals through leadership cultures, and most of those are CEOs build better cultures in their businesses. But here again, it's kind of like even that grew out of going where I saw the most need. And to me, it's just that's what we did at the local government level, for nine years in office, myself and the administrator who ran the day to day operations of the city, we took care of our city employees and our department heads. Even when the elected body didn't have their back, we did. So they would go over and above the call of duty to provide excellent covered customer service. And I'm kind of like, well, if we can build a good culture in a local government, any organization can do that. So it's something that I just have a passion about doing, helping individuals and organizations, and then, as I say, the leadership coaching, the keynote speaking. But all of it's part of the same whole. It's all just based in helping people, making connections, building bridges, connecting up with other people, with other people that I think can help them. If it's a situation where I see an individual that can be of more help to a client, I'm like, Go talk to them. You've done all you can with me. Take it to the next level with them.

Jackie - 00:28:12:

I love that. And it's so important that we create those cultures, as you said, of inclusion and belonging. So that people want to be there, want to stay there. And it's so important that we as leaders understand how to begin to build those cultures because it's not innate. We have to be intentional about it. And it's so important that we lead that charge. And I love that you're working with organizations and leaders to help do that.

Deke - 00:28:44:

Well, you know, Jackie, I've got a great friend out of Vancouver, Canada named Dov Baron. He is the world's most interesting man. You know him? Yes, he's a great friend of yours. But I've always been fascinated with Dov, that he talks about the difference between fitting in and belonging and I think he's got such a great point there and I've really focused my thinking on that. So making people feel they fit in is, to me, is not leadership. Because in order to fit in with the click within a business, within any organization, within a community, you might have to sacrifice some of who you are and your character to go along with the click to feel like you fit in with them. You're sacrificing part of yourself to be more like them. Leadership is about making people feel like they belong once in all. And I think that's within a business, within a community, leadership, if you make people feel like they belong, they're a valuable part of the team. How much more productive are they going to be? Because they're not trying to hide between a mask I mean, behind a mask to be something they're not. And it takes away a lot of vital and important energy to hide behind those masks when if you belong, you don't have to put the energy into that.

Jackie - 00:30:20:

Absolutely. So many of us throughout our careers have covered or shrunk ourselves or adjusted how we speak and our mannerisms and things to fit in when really what we're looking for is a culture of belonging where we can belong just as we are. And that's what we all want.

Deke - 00:30:41:

You realize that the situations in life that change you. But when we first came on, I talked about being a painfully shy kid with a thick Canadian accent and moving to the Deep South. At four years old. That created in me. I ultimately was very much accepted. I guess I became one of the cool kids, but it made me my whole life because I was perceived to be an insider. But I knew what it was like to feel like an outsider. So I always wanted to invite people to the party, make them feel like they belonged at the party. It's funny, my wife and I do this. It's like our home is the safe space where everybody from all walks of life can come and feel like they can let their air down. And I don't know if we purposely create that, but it's a wonderful thing to see. But I think that's just that's been a priority of mine is making people feel like they're invited to the party. It's an inclusive party where if you're going to be nice and cool and love on everybody else, come say. If you're going to be negative and hateful and spiteful, I'm not going to judge you. But you might want to find another party.

Jackie - 00:32:07:

I love that, and I bet it.

Deke - 00:32:09:

Won'T be as fun as the one we're having.

Jackie - 00:32:12:

That's right. Absolutely. Deke. Your book is called The Changemaker: The Art Of Building Better Leaders. Why did you write this book, and how do we begin to be better leaders but also build better leaders in our organizations?

Deke - 00:32:29:

It's very interesting. Jackie so in 2018, Forbes, who I published the book with, reached out to me and asked if I had an interest in publishing a book. I thought it was a joke or a scam, so I nearly deleted the email. But at that point, I'd been writing a column on Leadership Monthly for the Georgia Municipal Association here in Georgia for about four years. So they discovered me through that column. So I decided to do it because it was kind of like surveying Augusta. When I decided to run for office, we had had the same type leadership generated kind of out of the good old boy system for a long time. And I'm like going to the same people and asking them to do something different, doing something I mean, the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, right. So I thought, Well, I'll give a shot at writing this book and really showing what? Being a leader that can listen, a leader that can show their vulnerability, a leader that is leading through compassion and love and a spirit of inclusion, what that can result in. And it worked for me for nine years in office. So my editor from Forbes told me initially, he said, they told me I needed to appeal to a demographic. And I thought, Well, I didn't try to do that in office for nine years, and I'm not going to do that here. I grew up a punk rock fan, so I went all punk rock on them. I didn't tell him. Six months in, my editor said, this is really going to appeal to a wide variety of people. When the book came out, I had a speaking engagement, and a young lady I know here, she's African American, she's the vice chair of the Democratic Party. She came up to me and said, I love your book. My 18 year old daughter loves your book, and I would vote for you if you ran again, even if you ran as a Republican. Same week, a local guy that I know, who knows and supported former President Trump came up to me and said, I love your book, and just went on and on. And I'm like when I tell him that the female African American vice chair of. The Democratic Party feels the same way. But I'm like, well, if those two can agree that there's something about the book that they like, that should be something to talk about. And so I've always said, in leadership positions, sometimes to find the common ground, you have to become the common ground. So it's like dealing with cancer. I've got people all over the world who've never met each other that are praying for me on a daily basis. We're all united in those prayers. But once again, people were united in the love of the book. But it's funny, Jackie, people assumed it would be about politics because people don't associate politics and leadership. So I had a gentleman in a speaking engagement when it first came out, and he said, what's at the core of your book? I said, well, it said leader, that in leadership positions, even in politics, you can maintain your character and integrity and treat everybody, and I mean everybody, with dignity and respect and still be successful. He looked me straight in the face and said, I can't wait to read it, because I don't think that's possible.

Jackie - 00:36:10:

Wow.

Deke - 00:36:11:

Which is sad, isn't it?

Jackie - 00:36:12:

Yeah.

Deke - 00:36:15:

We've come so far away. When I was young, there were leaders and statesmen in both parties that I looked up to, but it's just where are those leaders and statesmen today?

Jackie - 00:36:29:

That's right. And we don't have the same you fight it out right. For the election, and then once the election is over, there is some level of coming together for the common good, and we're not seeing that as much as we used to.

Deke - 00:36:46:

No. We may have discussed this when you were on my show, but I think I don't want to blame everything on politics or the media, but they both have something to do with it. So media is entertainment now, and they're not in it to really focus on. They're pleasing shareholders. They're having to make a profit. So starts with US national nonprofit to move the nation away from hyperpolarization. I'm a founding partner, a movement partner. We conducted a study with George Washington University several months ago that showed that the mainstream media leading up to last year's midterm elections, they covered the extreme politicians on either end four times more than the individuals in both parties in Congress that are working across party lines, bipartisan fashion. So that's happening, but it's just not getting the coverage. Marjorie Taylor Green gets, like, ten times more coverage than any other member of Congress. I am from Georgia. I do not have any ill will towards her. But I can guarantee you there is no way in a state that has two Democrat senators, a majority Republican state legislature, a Republican governor that voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in 2002 I don't call this purple. I call us bipartisan. But for anybody to think that Marjorie Taylor Green represents the views of the whole state of Georgia totally off base and totally incorrect because I can guarantee you she does not represent my views for sure.

Jackie - 00:38:41:

Absolutely. And Deke, you're so right. You said earlier that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? But really, most of us are somewhere in the middle, right? Most of us are unsure about certain things. Most of us are not as me against you and us versus them as the people that sell that TV time and that airtime through the media. And it's unfortunate that we don't get that airtime.

Deke - 00:39:17:

And I'm going to tell you, Jackie, this is so poignant for me. So a young man named Manu Meel, who I've become friends with, I'm a mentor of his. He is the CEO of BridgeUSA, a bridging organization that's I think on 60 college campuses now, bringing together kids of different political ideologies to talk about how do we work together to solve the big picture issues there's BridgeAfrica and BridgeEurope now, too. But Manu, who went to Berkeley, told me he remembered when they had the demonstrations in Berkeley, he was in a class and the professor was saying something. Well, a very liberal student got up, shouted inbound, called him, also out on everything. Then a very conservative student who was diametrically opposed, which I didn't know. There were a lot of conservative students at Berkeley, but apparently there are some. My bad. I need to remain curious and realize there are conservative and liberal people every place. But so the two extremes got up and shouted down the professor. Nobody else in the classroom said anything. Manu got with the rest of the students, and neither none of them agreed with the extremists, but they were afraid to get up and voice their opinion because they didn't want to get shouted down. And that's the thing that I think those of us in the middle and I faced this in office, I caught so much flag from the extremes on either end. My mindset was, well, if I'm stirring up the extremes, I'm probably doing what's right for the majority. But it's a scary thing to step out in faith and say, I'm going to speak truth to power here. And no, when you do that, you're probably going to be shouted down by both extremes. And that's not what most people want to do to take on that fight. And I understand that. It's just you're going to get bullied by either side, and that's not a pleasant experience.

Jackie - 00:41:31:

Absolutely. Deke, let's talk about The Changemaker podcast. Tell us why we need to tune in.

Deke - 00:41:40:

One of the things to be is I so see so many great leaders, amazing people worldwide doing incredible things, starting movements, innovating in business, innovating in movements in communities. But you get back to the mainstream media, they don't get a lot of coverage. So I thought with the platform I have, I get to shine my light on a lot of those people, yourself included, people from all walks of life, all ages, all around the nation. But one of the things that I've just said, these change making leaders, one of the things I've come to realize about them, they're all servant leaders, and they're all not just talking about making changes for the better in their communities and in society. They're doing it. So my hope is that through hearing from these people, it inspires other people to go out and do it themselves. And I've established this network of amazing people who think like we do. They're not extremists, they're not throwing hand grenades, they're not trying to divide and conquer. But that work is going on throughout. It's interesting to me, daniel Lebetsky, who starts with us, the founder of Kind Snacks, in 2002, he started a nonprofit in the Middle of east called the One Voice Movement. So the goal was to bring moderate Israelis and Palestinians together to talk about how can we establish a Palestinian state and ensure peace for Israel. So people thought, this is never going to work. He went to the Palestinian leadership first, pitched the idea. They said, we're on board, but you'll never get the Israelis. So went to the Israelis, we've already got the Palestinians on board. 21 years later, there are 750,000 people in the Middle East signed onto this movement. Now, for most of our listeners, people would not believe that there's an organization like that in the Middle East because all they see is what's going on in the headlines. I had an item, Rod, an Impact artist out of La, grew up in Jordan. Amazing young lady. She is blowing up worldwide with her art, but she's a part of the Seeds of Peace nonprofit. She's a fellow in the Middle East. It's bringing together Palestinian and Israeli young artists talking about how do we change the narrative in the Middle East. So that's just in the Middle East, it's going on in the United States. So I want to highlight those things because I think part of what good leadership does, it gives people hope. And the old adage, if it bleeds and leads, most people that I know would rather watch something nurturing that gives them hope, as opposed to something that makes them think there is no hope and makes their blood boil. Maybe that's just common sense, but I think you and I agree on that.

Jackie - 00:45:13:

Absolutely. I totally agree with that. And the thing about it is, most of us are looking for a way to connect. Most of us are looking for a way to feel safe and feel valued and feel that belonging that we talked about earlier. And we're uncomfortable in those shouting matches and those we can't get along. We're opposites, we're against each other. We don't believe that. We don't feel that. And the thing you said gave me chills. To find the common ground, sometimes you have to be the common ground. And I love that. That's so true. I wanted to repeat that because I wrote that down. I'm going to use that as much as possible.

Deke - 00:46:00:

Well, Jackie, I will tell you. I told you my fifth and final chemo treatment is next Tuesday. My wife and I love chemo days because we have met so many amazing people from all walks of life. I am blessed with a spirit of peace and calm and I get not everybody is blessed with that. I get to share that with people going through chemo with me on a daily basis, all walks of life, old, young, black, white, and they know that I used to be the mayor. But I come up to them and I'm like, look, I'm in this with you. We're in this together. I'm not above you and we're going to get through this together. Not one of those people have I asked, hey, what's your political party? Hey, what's your religious belief? I've never asked anybody that. Because you know what, it doesn't matter. I mean, we are on a level playing field. We're all trying to get through cancer, but we're in it together. We have that bond I've shared with Melissa. I'm like, I'm really going to miss going in on Tuesdays because we've established these wonderful friendships and I'm like, I'm probably going to go back just to see these people. But that's the common ground. And I don't know, with cancer, I don't know anybody. I lost my mother and my brother to cancer. I think they're in heaven saying, okay, not a third. But I don't know anybody who can't relate to having gone through cancer themselves or having had a friend or loved one. So that should establish a bond of caring to where if we can't talk about we may disagree politically, but let's talk about the empathy that we can share for having had gone through cancer ourselves or a loved one go through it or a family member. Same thing. Addiction, mental health, these impact everybody. That's our humanity binding us together. And that's why I say God giving myth. To me, this opportunity is probably the greatest blessing I've ever had to do, the most good I've ever had in my life. And honestly, and I can say this and mean it, I feel more blessed today than I ever have in my entire life.

Jackie - 00:48:43:

Wow.

Deke - 00:48:44:

And to be able to share this with your listeners and your viewers, total.

Jackie - 00:48:48:

Blessing, thank you for that. It's so inspiring just how you're approaching it, right. And for those out there that may be struggling with similar diagnoses and just to give that hope and give that way forward and that light is so amazing. So thank you for that Deke.

Deke - 00:49:10:

Well, it's just so but to your listeners and viewers that might be dealing with cancer, reach out to me. Google my name. You can find me. I'm the only Deke Copenhaver I know. But if you need just a minute of uplifting because I know, as I say, it's scary. It is very scary. And I understand that God has blessed me with this sense of peace and calm, but every day I pray. I'm like, Lord, help me to share my blessings with others, because that's what you've given me to give them to me for. So anybody who wants to reach out to me, however I can uplift you, or just you want a shoulder to cry on, I'm there for you. Because we're all in it together.

Jackie - 00:50:03:

Absolutely. Deke, what is the message that you want to leave with our listeners in general today?

Deke - 00:50:13:

Despite a world that may seem so divided politically, socially? I don't operate in silos based on the media or anything. I engage at the grassroots level throughout this nation, worldwide. I spend time talking to your average man or woman on the street. We are more united than we are divided. People want to live in clean, safe communities with access to health care, where they can educate their children, where they have neighbors that care about their health and welfare. Those things are common ground. We're much closer than you think. So don't be misled. Don't be discouraged. I think we're at a great tipping point, and then we're about to see us come together and thrive as a nation. That's what I'm expecting. Have hope and a spirit of expectation, and I wouldn't say this if I didn't believe it.

Jackie - 00:51:22:

Deke, I love that. What an amazing way to end. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Deke, how can people get in touch with you so Deke Copenhaver I want to just make a website available so people can it's.

Deke - 00:51:38:

Dekecopenhaver.com. I'm on Instagram @dekecopenhaver LinkedIn at Deke Copenhaver. Facebook, wherever. I don't think I'm doing Twitter anymore, but just Google me. As far as I know, I'm the only Deke Copenhaver in the world, which is great for name recognition. Not good when you're a kid, when you get in trouble. We'll talk about that on another show.

Jackie - 00:52:04:

Deke, thank you so much. I have enjoyed this so much, and thank you for the inspiring work that you have done that you continue to do, and I look forward to staying in touch.

Deke - 00:52:16:

Well, same to you, Jackie. You are doing amazing work. Keep at it. Keep your joy for doing it. Don't let the world beat you down in the haters, because you're good at it and you're making a difference. But thank you for this opportunity.

Jackie - 00:52:38:

Thanks for joining me for this episode. Please take a moment to subscribe and review this podcast and share this episode with a friend. Become a part of our community on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. This show was edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Join us for our next episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. Take care of yourself and each other.